Watch the New England States Touring (NEST) Webinar

Watch this webinar to learn more about the New England States Touring (NEST) Grant in advance of the Idea Swap on November 12. 

ASL interpretation from Interpreter-Now.

Read the Transcript

Falyn Rose Elhard: Alright, I think we are good. Let's get started then. Right. Again, good morning everyone and welcome to NEFA's webinar about the New England States Touring, or because we love our acronyms, NEST grant program. This session will be recorded and shared on our website. So please keep your camera off if you prefer for your face to not be in the recording. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the land on which we are meeting. At the New England Foundation for the Arts, we believe that one of the roles of the arts, is to make the invisible, visible. We also believe that it is not the responsibility of those who have been made invisible, to remind us that they are still here. Therefore, as a committed ally, NEFA acknowledges that the ground on which we work, is the traditional land of the Massachusetts and Wampanoag people. We honor their ancestors, past, present, and future, and recognize their continued existence and contributions to our society. NEFA also acknowledges that all the places that our distributed staff live and work, and where we provide support and hold events, are indigenous lands. Because we are gathering in virtual space, it is vital we acknowledge that not only are we tied through the lands that we are on, but because we are consuming resources through our cables and our electricity, through our use of natural gas and heating oils, water, and occupation of space, while we are gathered virtually, whether we are in our offices or in our homes. The history of technology in the United States, including the platform we are using today, Zoom, is deeply tied to Silicon Valley, the traditional and present homeland of the Ohlone people. We offer our respect to the elders, past, present, and future, of all indigenous peoples, of all the lands that we live and work on, both physically and digitally. So again, everyone thank you for joining us. My name Falyn Rose Elhard, I use they/them pronouns, and I am the program coordinator for New England Presenting & Touring. And I am joined by my lovely colleagues today who I will let introduce themselves. I don't know which one of you wants to go first.

Adrienne Petrillo: Good morning everyone. I'm Adrienne Petrillo, she/her pronouns. I'm the senior program director for New England presenting & touring here at NEFA.

Audrey Seraphin: And good morning everyone. My name is Audrey Seraphin, I use she/her pronouns. And I am also calling in from Boston, Wampanoag, Nipmuc and Narragansett Land. I probably got that wrong. But from all, great to be here with everyone this morning.

Adrienne Petrillo: Thank you. And I also want to acknowledge our colleague Saejin Yoo, who is behind the scenes, helping us out today. Sae works with Falyn, Audrey, and myself on our regional grant programs. Thank you for joining us today, Sae.

Falyn Elhard: All right. So today, we are here to share information about NEFA's New England State Touring, or NEST grant program. NEST is one of many grant programs available to support projects based in New England. I encourage you to review our website for information about the other NEFA programs and resources. So, NEST is New England State Touring and the NEST program funds performances, ratings, and screenings of work by regional, national, and international artists, presented by New England-based nonprofit organizations. NEST is NEFA's oldest program, and the core of support for New England organizations that connect artists with communities in our region. NEST is publicly funded and supported by the National Endowment for the Arts, the NEA, and the six New England state arts agencies.

Adrienne Petrillo: I'd like to share a little bit about the program goals for NEST, which really inform then the program design, as well as the funding criteria that we'll be talking about later in this session. So first is, the first goal is to expand direct access to high quality artists and aesthetic diversity for all New England communities, by artists from New England, the nation, and across the globe. And I will say, as Falyn mentioned, NEST is supported by the NEA, and the six state arts agencies in New England. And so supporting access to the arts for all, is an important component of our partnership with those organizations. We are also looking to foster opportunities for collaboration, and partnerships among New England cultural organizations and between artists and organizations. The field that we serve with these programs, is the presenting and touring field here in New England, and it's an interconnected ecosystem. And NEST funds projects that really help support those creative partnerships, and also build opportunities. Those opportunities can lead to long-term partnerships and relationships that often exist well beyond the scope of a NEFA funded project. We also encourage projects that provide meaningful interaction between artists and communities, extending beyond the stage. Activities that go beyond the stage provide deeper interaction to enhance the audience's experience of the arts, and the understanding of the artist's work. This also can lead to a much more meaningful connection for the artists and for the community being reached. I will now pass it over to Audrey, who's going to talk about the three different versions of the NEST program.

Audrey Seraphin: Thank you so much Adrienne. As mentioned, and as some of you may already know, NEST exists in several different forms here at NEFA, in three different levels, which are appropriately titled NEST 1, 2 and 3. And we're going to be going into detail explaining those different roles today. First, we have NEST 1. This is the most basic form of NEST. It funds one, It funds New England nonprofit applicants to bring a New England artist from outside of their state. So one artist, who is from a New England state performing in a different New England state. NEST 2 funds tours of New England based artists by one nonprofit based inside the artist's home state and one other nonprofit based in a different New England state. So, sort of like a mini tour, with both local and another state as the two stops. And then finally NEST 3, which is, which for folks who have been around, bears a lot of resemblance to the expeditions program, funds tours of regional, national, and international artists presented by a minimum of three nonprofits, and at least two different New England states. So as it says, you can have artists from anywhere in the world, coming to three or, Three or more nonprofit arts presenters, in New England. I think I'm good for the next slide. Awesome. So, to speak a little bit about who is eligible to apply and receive a NEST grant, you may have heard this a little bit from me already, but applicant organizations also known as arts presenters, you'll hear us use the terms interchangeably. Eligible applicant organizations offer performing arts programming, and represent a wide range of different types of organizations. The one big piece here is that, applicants do need to be a 501c3 nonprofit organization, a school, federally-recognized tribal government, and/or other government entity. We do not allow fiscal agents, as this is federal funding and that is not allowed, by our funder, the NEA. You must also be based in a New England state. And as a little reminder here, those New England states are Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, or Vermont. Those are the six states of New England and it does not include New York. In terms of applicants that we have seen in the past, you don't necessarily need to be an arts producing nonprofit, but as I mentioned, you do need to be an arts presenting nonprofit. Past examples of applicants include, libraries, municipalities, historical societies, really any organization that has that 501c3 license and is interested in bringing in New England or national, international artists with NEST 3, to their community, can apply. However, all of these projects, must include a public presentation of the artist, who is named in the application. And a public presentation is defined at as an event that is open to the public and advertised accordingly. As I mentioned, this is a federal, part of a federal program. So the federal federal government requires, that all NEFA organizational grant recipients supported by federal funding register for SAM.gov UEI or unique entity ID. My colleagues Sae has just dropped the website in the chat, so you can link and learn more. This is actually a requirement for all NEFA grants, so it is not a bad idea to check it out, even if you're interested in other programs. And finally, all applicants, applicant organizations who are applying to NEST must maintain an updated profile on CreativeGround directory, which is NEFA's New England Creative Economy database. And we'll talk a little bit about, more about that later. I'm good for the next slide. Okay, so now we're going to go into detail, a little bit more. I'm personally going to go into detail a little bit more about NEST 1 and 2. Those are our two levels that are specifically for New England artists, being presented by New England presenters. So as I mentioned, NEST 1 funds New England nonprofit applicants to present a New England artist from outside their state. For example, if you were a library or a town hall perhaps in New Hampshire, and you wanted to bring a artist from Boston, you could apply to NEST 1 to bring that artist from Massachusetts over into New Hampshire. The deadlines for NEST 1 happen three times a year, and they're the first business days and most often the first day of the months of August, December and March. A new sort of tidbit here, we do have some limits on how many NEST 1 and 2 applications folks can submit. So organizations may submit up to two NEST 1 and/or NEST 2 applications, in any combination for each deadline. So for example, our next deadline is in December. You could submit one NEST 1 application, and one NEST 2 application. You could submit two NEST 2 applications, but you could not submit total more than two applications. So not three or more. In your NEST 1 application, you are applying for the art, for a percentage of the artist fee to present the artist to your community. So grants provide up to 60% of that artist fee and range from 500 to $5,000. Important to note though, that applications for artist fees of under $2,000 may request the full artist fee. So, that full 2000. And both the artist, as well as, we mentioned before, the presenter, must be in the CreativeGround directory and that artist must be listed as NEST eligible in the CreativeGround directory. And that is NEST 1 from one state to another, one presenter. And that's how you remember that it's NEST 1 . Okay, I think now we can do NEST 2, Falyn, thank you so much. So NEST 2, is our other regional only program. So NEST 2 funds the tours of New England based artists, presented by one nonprofit based inside of the artist's home state, and another nonprofit based in a different New England state. This is sort of a little mini tour, that folks can set up and it also allows presenters to present New England artists from their state or community and, ensures that they're vouching for artists locally to, you know, travel throughout New England and present their work there as well. So similarly, the application deadlines for NEST 2 align with NEST 1 on August 1st or the first business days of August, December, and March. With NEST 2, each applicant organization must submit individual applications for that same deadline. So for example, if you were presenting something in the spring, and you wanted to apply for the next NEST deadline, you would both need to apply for December 1st. You couldn't have somebody wait until the March 1st deadline. So you both apply December 1st. And we do look for some coordination there, between the two presenting organizations. So organizations as I mentioned, can submit a maximum of two. So again, those maximums for each deadline are inclusive of NEST 1 and 2 applications. So you can submit them in any combination but no more than two. Similarly to NEST 1, grants provide up to 60% of the artist fee, and range from 500 to $5,000. And applications with artist fees under 2000, can apply to request the full artist fee, and the artist must be listed as NEST eligible in the CreativeGround directory. But essentially, in summary, NEST 2, two different presenting organizations, one from the artist home state and one from any other state in New England. So for example, if you are looking, if you were a Vermont based presenter looking to present a local musician, you could do so through NEST 2, but you would need to partner with an organization in another state like Massachusetts or Rhode Island, to organize a little mini tour for that Vermont musician. And both of you, both you and the out-of-State presenter would complete NEST 2 applications, and submit them on the same deadline, to be considered. And I think I'm passing it over to Falyn for NEST 3, which is slightly more complicated.

Falyn Elhard: Thank you Audrey. So, as Audrey mentioned earlier, NEST 3, most closely resembles out of the three different versions of NEST, a previous program that we had, Expedition. NEST 3 funds tours of regional, national, and international artists, presented by a minimum of three nonprofit organizations in at least two different New England states. So, ways that this can look is that, you have two presenters in Massachusetts, let's say one from Eastern Mass and one from Western Mass, and then one presenter in Vermont, and they can present an artist from anywhere in the world. It could be another New England artist from whichever state, it could be a national artist from let's say California, or it could be an international artist, from say Pakistan. And three is the minimum number of presenters that you need, but it's not the maximum that you can have. So, we have seen tours featuring like that's a seven presenters in the past, and that is totally fine. Again as long as they are from at least two different New England states. So, NEST 3 has one annual deadline, and that is on the first business day of March. Each organization, each presenting organization, is responsible for negotiating the terms of the engagement with the artist, and completing and submitting a NEST 3 application. So everyone submits their own application here. Organizations may submit up to three NEST 3 applications. And, we have those limits for NEST 1 and 2, where you can submit up to two applications per deadline, and that sort of stacks with the NEST 3 application. So, if you wanted to come in for the March deadline and submit three NEST 3 applications, you can also, in addition to that, submit up to two NEST 1 and/or NEST 2 applications. Grants for NEST 3 provides up to 60% of the artist fee, but our maximum grant size per NEST 3 is $10,000. And like NEST 1 and NEST 2 applications with artist fees under $2,000, may request the full artist fee. If you are presenting a New England artist through NEST 3, then that artist must be listed as NEST eligible on CreativeGround. And for any artists that are from outside of New England, one of the presenting partners, please, just one must submit a work sample for the artist. And any projects funded through NEST 3, must occur between June 1st, 2025 and August 31st, 2026. And of course, that is just for, this upcoming deadline here. But in general it's always between June 1st of the year that you apply, and August 31st of the following year. And I will pass it back over to Audrey.

Audrey Seraphin: So, I am going to spend a minute here talking about things that all three levels of NEST 1, 2 and 3 do not fund. NEST does not fund private events defined as those that are not open to the public and not advertised accordingly. We also do not fund events taking place outside of the New England geography. We do not fund fundraisers, though of course we do encourage ticket sales at these events, for a wide variety of reasons. You can make money on these events, but we will not be funding a performance at a gala or a similar fundraising event. We do not fund activities and programs, which take place exclusively in schools during class time, or performances in which the majority of performers are students. We do not fund self-produced presentations by artists or ensembles. And we do not fund artists who are visiting in a guest artist capacity to a performing, producing organization, such as a conductor or soloist, if they are performing with the organization themselves. For example, an orchestra, someone's coming to sing with them, but it's mostly the orchestra you could not apply to fund that guest artist. And finally, we do not fund presentations of artistic work that have funding available through our national programs, the National Dance Project and the National Theater Project. These are two other NEFA grant programs, that offer support to New England organizations, and also offer funds for those projects. There is opportunities for New England presenters to bring those projects, through those programs. So, for organizations who present dance and theater, it's always worth checking out what projects are available through the National Dance Project and the National Theater Project. And we encourage you to apply for touring funds for those projects through their programs respectively. But we do not fund those projects, while they are being funded by another NEFA program. And, I'm going to, I think hand it to Adrienne for the next bit. Thanks.

Adrienne Petrillo: Great. So, I'm going to talk about the funding criteria. And this gets into the big question we always get, which is, how do you determine who gets funded and who doesn't? And it really comes down to the funding criteria. So there are four criteria that we look at, when assessing a grant application. And each application is reviewed individually based on this criteria. And for NEST 3, we also look at the collective strength of the overall tour as well. So first and foremost is that we are looking for a clear rationale for how the project aligns with the organization's arts programming goals and its significance for the community. So this is the place to talk about the artist. Name the artist. This is why, we want to hear why you are presenting this artist right now, for your community. The next question or the next criteria, which is that, we are looking for collaborative planning, among tour partners and artists, and the featured artists should be included in project planning. This criteria is only relevant for NEST 2 and 3, where partners are required. And this is where we're looking to find out more information about how you've worked with the tour partners as well as with the artist. Some examples of this might be, have you all been on conference calls together? Are you sharing resources like marketing materials or study guides? Has some or maybe one presenter has developed a set of resources that can be shared with other presenters? Are you talking to each other? Are you learning from each other? Are you building those relationships? So that is what we're looking for with that criteria. And then we are also looking for additional activities beyond the performance, which provide opportunities for the artist in this specific engagement, to meaningfully connect with various sectors of the community. Cross-sector exchange and collaboration are strongly encouraged. And by cross-sector we mean arts organizations, partnering with non-arts organizations. So partnering with a healthcare organization, or a climate change organization, or a social justice organization. But is there an opportunity to make the project cross-sector? And additional activities, these are the things going back to the program goals that reflect that off-stage, beyond the stage. So additional activities could include panel discussions, they could include workshops, they can be informal events like dinners or other meals. But what are the opportunities for your community, to connect with this artist beyond just the performance? And then finally, we are looking for projects that expand access to the arts for all New England communities, including rural and/or Black, Indigenous, and People of color, also known as BIPOC communities. NEFA acknowledges structural inequities that have excluded individuals and communities from opportunity based on race, gender, disability, sexual orientation, class, age, language, culture and geography. And we strive to counter those inequities in our work. And I recommend looking at NEFA's values statement regarding equity, diversity, inclusion and accessibility. Organizations that are serving rural communities, and/or deeply engaged in BIPOC communities, are highly encouraged to apply to the NEST program. So the applications which best address these funding criteria, are the most likely to receive funding. The funding amount also is based on how well the criteria is met. So the stronger the application in meeting these criteria, the higher the likelihood of the grant, and the higher the grant amount. NEFA staff is available to advise you throughout the process. So if you have questions, you're welcome to to reach out to us. The full application for NEST 1 and 2, the next deadline's December. So that deadline, the applications are usually posted about six to eight weeks in advance, so it's not available just yet. And similarly NEST 3 will be available in early 2025. So while you can't look at the full application at the moment, because we don't have one open, you can preview the narrative questions on our website. You will see a link. Thank you Sae for dropping that in the chat. And if you look at those narrative questions, you'll see a direct correlation between the questions and these funding criteria. My sort of pro-tip for everyone, is if your answer to one of the narrative questions is no, or not applicable, then this grant program might not be the right fit for you. We are looking for an answer to those questions. So for instance, if we ask how you've collaborated with partners, we want to hear how you've collaborated with partners, and if you haven't, then you are going to have a hard time meeting the second funding criterion. My other piece of advice in terms of answering narrative questions is specificity. The most common piece of feedback we hear from panelists, is that they want more details. So you know, we've tried to provide you with enough space to give that information. There is a 2000 character limit per question, but I encourage you to take up that entire space because we do want to hear about your project, we want to hear about your partners, we want to hear about your community. The other piece is, you know, you should never assume panelists or NEFA will know anything about what you're talking about. Write it as if you are writing for someone who has no idea what you do, or who's in your community, who you serve, anything like that. One side note to also mention, Audrey kind of mentioned it earlier, which is that, we do encourage charging admission for projects. We are not necessarily looking for projects that are free. There are certainly events where that makes more sense for certain either practical, or reasons related to the goals of the event. But in general, we are looking for projects that charge admission because admission can help provide that revenue that is also important to all of us these days. They also remind the audience, that the artists doing this work, that their work has value and should be compensated. And then on a practical level, paid admission can also help with attendance at events, as well as helping to collect data about patrons that might be helpful in marketing and fundraising. So that's the funding criteria and if you really want, kind of the inside view or you're really wondering how NEST works, or how you get a NEST grant, this funding criteria is the key to that. So I encourage you to spend some time looking at that and considering how you would address the questions. So we can go to the next slide. So just a little bit about the review and the award process. So NEST 1 and 2 applications are reviewed by NEST advisors. These advisors are representatives from each of the New England state arts agencies and applicants are encouraged to contact the NEST advisor from their state, while they're applying. We do have that information on our website, because these are the folks looking at your grant. So it can be a good idea to just give them a heads up, or check in with them or ask them a question. For NEST 1 and 2, applicants are generally notified about six to eight weeks after the deadline. For NEST 3, applications are reviewed by panelists from the presenting and touring field. So it is a peer panel review process. These panelists might include presenters, artists, agents, managers, or others who are just familiar with the presenting and touring field. They may be from New England, but more likely they may not be, as we are a small region. And so it can be hard to find folks who don't have a conflict of interest. And so this means that NEST 3 panelists might be familiar with your organization, they might be familiar with your your community, but don't assume that. You know, you want to be sure to explain what you do and who the community is that you serve. I would not assume they have knowledge about that. And just to be clear, that NEFA staff, while we facilitate the process, we do not actually weigh-in about the decisions, that is really up to the panel, and the final decisions are made by the panel. And with NEST 3, applicants are notified about eight to 10 weeks after the deadline. with all NEFA grant programs, we offer panel feedback once the process has concluded, and we even recommend, even if you received funding, you still might want to reach out for feedback. We find that people are often surprised to learn why something was funded, in addition to sometimes learning why it wasn't funded. And both things can really help with future applications. So you're more than welcome to reach out to us once the process has concluded. Should you receive a NEST grant, a final report will be required. And NEST grants are generally paid as a reimbursement after that final report is submitted. Partial grant payments can be made before the project is completed. If there has already been partial payment to the artists, then we can reimburse. But, it's good to know from the beginning that NEST grants are generally reimbursement grants. And we do recommend, Sae just dropped another link in there, reviewing the final report requirements before applying, to just make sure that you feel like, you have the capacity to meet those requirements, as that's an important part of receiving a grant as well. And I will pass it back to Falyn.

Falyn Elhard: Thank you Adrienne. So, we've mentioned deadlines are the first business days of August, December, and March. And so here are exactly when those days fall within this current grant cycle. So we have a deadline passed on August 1st. The next upcoming grant deadline will be on December 2nd, and then the final deadline for the cycle will be on March 3rd. As a reminder, the August 1st deadline was just for NEST 1 and 2 grants. The December 2nd deadline will also be just for NEST 1 and 2 grants, but the March 3rd deadline will be for NEST 1, 2 and 3 grants. And all applications to all NEFA grant programs, are submitted through our online grants portal. And please note that we do not accept late applications. So, if your grant has not been submitted by 11:59 PM, on whichever day that the deadline falls on, it will not be accepted. Please make sure you hit submit when you have completed your application. We have seen a few people stumble there. But yes, no late submissions are accepted for the NEST grant program. And I will pass things back to Adrienne.

Adrienne Petrillo: Great. So, we want to touch on a few resources that are complimentary to the grant programs that we offer. First, oh, I think, can we go back a slide? Thank you. So first is the CreativeGround website. So CreativeGround.org is New England's community generated free, let me say it again, free, arts and culture directory that provides visibility, connection, and information to support our region-wide creative network. So this is an opportunity for artists and arts organizations to promote their work, to find collaborators and connect with Creative New England. It is an excellent tool. It is a very, very robust directory. I think there's about 30,000 profiles on there at the moment. All cultural nonprofits are represented on there, as well as a lot of the artists and creative businesses who are based in the region. You can search it a variety of ways, including by organization type, by discipline, by geography. So you can, that's a great tool if you're looking to find partners like outside of your state, you can narrow it down to a particular state or even a particular town. You can also use CreativeGround to find NEST eligible artists. So with NEST 1 and 2, all artists need to be what we call NEST eligible on CreativeGround. And this essentially means that they have filled out certain fields within their CreativeGround profile. Those are things artists would want to fill out anyway. So it's like things like having a description, having a photo, having a link to a video, talking about past engagements, things like that. There is more information on the website about those specific NEST artist requirements, but any artist who wants to be considered for a NEST 1 or 2 grant, must complete the NEST eligibility on CreativeGround. I will say any artist can also become NEST eligible at any time. So it's just a rolling process, that everyone can do at their own time. It is reviewed by human beings, so it's also not automated and just want to note that. So if you do it and you don't get approved within 90 seconds, it's because a human being is going to look at it, and may email you if there are any questions. And organizations who apply to NEST, to all three versions of NEST, are also encouraged to have a CreativeGround profile. It's a resource that we share with panelists. So they may be using CreativeGround to learn more about you, or your organization, or your community. So, and again, it's a great way to promote your work. So NEST 3 does require those partners throughout New England. CreativeGround is a great resource for that. But we also want to talk about another event that we do, that helps to foster those partnerships. So this fall we are hosting our annual idea swap event. This is an annual gathering of New England based arts presenters, cultural organizations and artists. And they come together to share networking and project ideas, specifically for the NEST 3 program. This year's event is being held November 12th in Worcester Mass. It's a one day event, and it's a great opportunity if you are interested in NEST 3, you have a project you're interested in touring, or you just want to hear what other people are talking about, it's a really good opportunity to network and gather with peers from around the region. It's generally about 150 to 175 people for one very packed day of information. But it's a nice chance to also connect with people in person and use that time to start building some relationships. So I think we will, we're moving into the final parts of this presentation, and as we're doing that I encourage you to also drop any questions you have in the chat, and we will do our best to answer them and I'll pass it back to Falyn.

Falyn Elhard: Thank you Adrienne. So just shout out to our funders that we mentioned earlier, the National Endowment for the Arts and the six New England state arts agencies. They enable us to do what we do, so thank you to them. And lastly, we will be moving into the questions part of this webinar now. And so we encourage you to drop questions in the chat, but also, if there is a question that we're not able to answer in the time we have allotted, or you think of something later, you can reach us. We have our contact info just shared right here on this slide. And we very, very strongly encourage you to reach out to us. If you are new to the NEST grant program, and thinking of submitting an application. It's always good just to check in, and make sure you are understanding program guidelines correctly. And if you have any questions at all, we are here to help and to answer. With all that being said, in addition to dropping questions in the chat, you can also feel free to use the raise hand function in Zoom, and then speak your question as well. Again, just please note that this is recorded and will be going up on our website. So if you do not want your likeness posted on our website, then we advise that you use the chat instead.

Adrienne Petrillo: I see a question in the chat that said, would you please review the project timeline for the different application deadlines? I saw one for NEST 3, but could use a refresher for NEST 1. Yes. Falyn, do you want to go back to the deadline slide, which might be helpful? Thank you. So for NEST 1 and 2, so the August deadline that we just had, is for projects that start after November 1st. The December deadline is for projects after March 1st, and the March deadline is for projects after June 1st. So they are all approximately three months in advance of when projects need to start. And then projects should generally take place within about a year of that time, that start of that timeline. And then NEST 3, as Falyn had noted, is about a year and a half, a little less, is basically two summers. So it always starts June 1, and runs through the following August. So for folks who exclusively do summer programming, there's an opportunity to apply for both the upcoming summer as well as the following summer. Yes, and as noted, this is all on our website as well. All of the information we've shared today is on the website, so I hope no one was trying to take frantic notes. It is all there, but we are happy to answer questions. We know it's sometimes a little easier to hear it, kind of said verbally, Right, if there aren't other questions, we'll just go back to one question that was posted in the chat, about whether there's a limit on the number of applications that an artist can be listed in. And the answer to that is that there currently are no limits, in terms of the artist. The only limits are on the number of applications that a presenter can submit. All right, well if there are no further questions, we want to thank everyone for joining us today. Again, we are available and here to answer questions at any time. Feel free to call or email us. And we appreciate you joining us, and this recording will be posted on NEFA's website within a few weeks. So also if you really want to watch it again, you are welcome to come back and do that. But thank you for joining us, and I hope everyone has a wonderful day.